Things you people are doing WRONG. :)

menace - 07:13 29 December 2013 #

Good morning!

After the first night of active editing, I've gone over the logs just to see what mischief you lot have been up to, and to present a few examples where features may have been misunderstood.

Log: 2013-12-28 23:31:46 Lycan Removed Lycan as a member of Retroguru
Solution: Since Lycan is actually credited as "/ Retroguru" on several earlier occasions, I believe this is a misunderstood feature. I have edited her back but as an ex-member.

Log: 2013-12-28 23:32:19 skin_dezign Added tag 'skin sk!n dezign amiga ascii'
Solution: Several things to nitpick on here, unfortunately - first of all, to match to that tag you'd have to type in all that. Second, all that metadata is already present in the entry itself. I believe the use of tags have been misunderstood here; we intend tags to be used to easily group productions with something in common, like they require Direct 11 (http://demozoo.org/productions/tagged/directx-11/) or they used a particular software tool to make it (http://demozoo.org/productions/tagged/gnu-rocket/). Making a note to explain tags better.

More to come as I see them.

menace - 07:33 29 December 2013 #

2013-12-29 02:15:52 irokos Added production 'ACiD Trip'
Solution: This production was already in the database (http://demozoo.org/graphics/90213/). Please search before you add entries, avoids all the dupehunting in retrospect. :) In addition, it was set to type "Pack" and platform to "MS-DOS". While I understand your reasoning here, coming from a artscene background as you do, you would set it as an artpack for ms-dos charset. However, the correct type here would be "Ansi", which infers the charset. We refer to "Pack" not as artpacks, but to the actual packs of productions that were so popular on the amiga and atari in the late 80s/early 90s.

menace - 07:53 29 December 2013 #

Log: 2013-12-29 00:07:49 trc Set location to Limbo, Province of Maguindanao, Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao, Philippines
Solution: haha, you're in limbo, just SUPER-funny. I expect all your friends lol'ed. Since I _seeeeeriously_ doubt that is actually the case, I removed the location. If you have a legitimate concern that you do not want your location shared, just tell us. We can totally add a note to that effect, fixing the problem.

farfar - 09:29 29 December 2013 #

I give it about 1 day before you are fed up with cleaning all that shit up :)

menace - 11:47 29 December 2013 #

farfar: I spent three plus years on this site thus far - you wanna bet I'm giving up that easily? :)

Another thing, that emoon brought to my attention - is re-uploading screenshots from other sites. Don't. We covered this in the Frequently Asked Questions - here are two examples:

http://demozoo.org/productions/96551/ from http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=3893
http://demozoo.org/productions/96550/ from http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=30102

farfar - 12:46 29 December 2013 #

menace: no I suppose note - I am just amazed at the sheer amount of manual labour you guys have put / are putting into this thing :)

nativ - 14:09 29 December 2013 #

Can I upload an image 'if available' to go with a musical submission ? I did a grafik header for one one zero. Cheers

Saga_Musix - 15:55 29 December 2013 #

Log: 2013-12-29 14:29:20 RufUsul Added credit for Mem O' Ree on 2DFX: Music (sleeping waste)

Please use the "tell us something" dropdown and add soundtrack names from there. The additional details for credits should not be abused for this. Additional details may be something like "intro part", "3D Graphics", etc.

menace - 16:16 29 December 2013 #

Another one that just copied the screenshot across - Jenni this time.

http://demozoo.org/productions/3805/ from http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=16338

Please don't add lowresolution single screenshots sourced from other sites. We support high resolution and multiple shots. Go make good ones, or leave it for someone else to do it properly.

menace - 16:18 29 December 2013 #

And ham is also doing that;

http://demozoo.org/productions/96544/ from http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=52731

SunSpire - 17:07 29 December 2013 #

I confess I did so too for some of the Nordlicht releases, either because I was unable to run the prod on my pc due to ATI issues or because it was a non-pc platform that I couldn't run. I figured better to have a screenshot there for now than none at all.

Now that I saw your message regarding this tho I'll stop doing that, promise :)

TS - 18:38 29 December 2013 #

What about allowing incremental screenshots?
Thus, use a copied or by other means less desirable screenshot (including bad captures form wild releases) as a starter and allow it being replaced with better versions later on.

Saga_Musix - 19:15 29 December 2013 #

Many people would most likely not bother to take a new screenshot if there's already a small, bad one.

dipswitch - 20:44 29 December 2013 #

Another wrong thing:

2013-12-29 19:05:11 Alta Added credit for Alta on The Refresh and the Ness: Code (Demo was accidentally released as 86 blx before it was finished) (link) (link2)


Such things belong into the product notes, but not in the credit roles clarification field.

T-101 - 20:50 29 December 2013 #

moved to a blurb

Alta - 22:32 29 December 2013 #

I am completely unclear on how I can edit the product notes, but it seems like I can put important stuff in the wrong place and someone will fix it for me ;)

dipswitch - 23:02 29 December 2013 #

no, please don't do so in the future! :P
better post it into the "fix me beautiful" thread.

dipswitch - 23:05 29 December 2013 #

and alta, while we're at it: when entering old prods of yours, please use the nickname you used at the time you did the production - since these old nicknames are linked as alternative names to your current nick, they will direct to the correct page anyway. thanks!

irokos - 23:16 29 December 2013 #

menace: i added it as a pack because it actually is an art pack. The art pack got the same name as one of the art pieces which is into it, called the same.
how should we add an art pack? there's no such category.

dipswitch - 23:22 29 December 2013 #

2013-12-29 23:13:50 TS Added nick 'KeyJ' (link)

T$: Did you imply that JaKott is an alternative nick of KeyJ? If this is the case, you should have added it as an alternative nick to the existing KeyJ page http://demozoo.org/sceners/21294/ and not made a new scener entry. I'm fixing this now, given your pouet comment implies it's KeyJ.

dipswitch - 01:30 30 December 2013 #

mayday, what type of product is this? http://demozoo.org/productions/96636/

dipswitch - 01:35 30 December 2013 #


2013-12-30 01:06:55 mayday Edited nick 'DJ Ozone': changed aliases to 'Ozone / Kenedi / Kenu' (link)

did you mean that these are separate aliases? then you have to split them with commas, as it is actually written in the submission form.

dipswitch - 01:36 30 December 2013 #

also, "Kenedi" and "kenu" are clearly not spellnig variations of "Ozone", but separate nicks, and should be added as "new names" on the same scener page.

it's like the difference between "alias" and "ANV" on discogs.com, in case anyone is familiar with it.

TS - 02:04 30 December 2013 #

dipswitch: The problem is that the alternative nick already existed as a separate szener due to the import. Trying to change the credit to the correct one did not work either due to ambiguity (ending up in a popup with a selection of multiple scener entries, but selecting one of them had no effect)

CreaMD - 02:20 30 December 2013 #

Menace: every time you are editing any C64 entry, please check with the authority source for C64 scene information. That is http://csdb.dk

I don't know why you have added Saehn as member of DMAgic. I'll be glad if he ever was member of our group, but he never was our member. I think there should be some sort of forum/talk TAB directly in the database entry so this kind of situations could be resolved in place. That would also allow to give reasons for edits like removing/adding some data.


CreaMD - 02:27 30 December 2013 #

The rest member related problems I found in DMAgic group entry
CreamD (SK) - OK
Jak T Rip - OK
JTR - alias of Jak T Rip (should be merged in one profile, not held separately)
MacGyver (DE) - EX Member
Saehn - Not Member
Thunderblade - EX Member
Wotnau - OK
Woznak - shoud be Alias of Wotnau, or removed.

dipswitch - 02:36 30 December 2013 #

thx, creamd, will fix it. but could you please repost it in the "fix me beautiful" thread next time?

dipswitch - 02:36 30 December 2013 #


CreaMD - 02:39 30 December 2013 #

Ok. Thnx.

dipswitch - 02:39 30 December 2013 #

and in fact, these are things that you can also fix yourself =)

CreaMD - 02:52 30 December 2013 #

I see. Now I get how to make members "inactive" fine.

Don't know how did you remove the incorrect entries though. E.g. woznak (the entry is removed from database it seems).

Having private messages would be nice for debates like this between members.

dipswitch - 02:59 30 December 2013 #

Deleting entries is only possible for admins. Feel free to give us a shout in the "fix me beautiful" thread. And thanks for clearing up the DMAgic mess!

CreaMD - 03:02 30 December 2013 #

Thank you too.

Saga_Musix - 14:34 30 December 2013 #

Straight from the results.txt file:
. 4 Gaze Saehn/DMAgic 24 2 .
In that case you can't really blame menace that he added Saehn as member of DMAgic. Maybe this person was just lying, or meanta completely different group with the same name? :)

dipswitch - 17:44 30 December 2013 #

2013-12-30 17:40:46 Zorro2NoExtra Set author to 'Tomchi + NoExtra'
2013-12-30 17:40:30 dipswitch Set author to 'Tomchi / NoExtra'

Zorro2, why did you do this? The tune is not a production of Tomchi _and_ the group NoExtra, but a production of Tomchi _of_ the group NoExtra, right? In this case, my edit was the right way to express this.

CreaMD - 01:48 31 December 2013 #

Saga_Musix , there is a reliable authoritative source for C64 Scene and that is CSDB.dk. One can never rely on post party result files because they are written by tired inconsiderate people like me (it's quite possible that I was the one who had chance to correct that info as I'm one of the Forever party organizers and actually also coder of the viewer for the compo entry if I remember right).

Also it's best not to make any additions for entries one doesn't know especially when there are living and active members around and when one isn't actively following the scene. Adding info without deep knowlede will decrease the quality of the database info like in case of DMAgic having 8 members instead of 3 + 2ex

dipswitch - 01:53 31 December 2013 #

CreaMD, you have to understand that during the past year, when the site was in closed beta mode, we were busy entering the result files of ALL parties (at least those available on scene.org) by hand. now is the time to finetune this groundwork, and that's what we're doing right now, also with your and others' help. this is how the quality that you are demanding comes about. but please stop slagging us off for not having consulted all sources from the start. the database is luckily not hewn in stone, and we're fixing stuff every day.

CreaMD - 17:51 31 December 2013 #

Slagging you wasn't my intention. I just tried to reiterate something I consider important. I apologize for the tone that was too patronising. Have a nice year 2014.

dipswitch - 19:25 31 December 2013 #

Critique is important, no offense taken! I just wanted to make clear how the immense data that we have came about - namely through result files as primary source. Now the finetuning can be done.

Have a nice new year too!

radman - 21:01 14 January 2014 #

this is just an observation, and I am sure that many others are aware of this. the "Location" field is being used in a number of ways here on demozoo, ranging from nationality, to country-of-origin, and when they all happen to agree, actual location.

for better or for worse, the most common usage I have seen is using Location as country-of-origin. what are the plans to differentiate these?

dipswitch - 23:15 14 January 2014 #

there is no rule yet on this, but i think the most common-sense thing to do is to use the location where the person's demoscene activities unfolded. i was born in russia, so it's my "country of origin", but i did not do anything meaningful demoscene-wise on russian soil because i was a kid when my family moved away... :P

with people still active in the scene and having moved, one should, i guess, use their current location and indicate their movements in the notes, like i did for example with <a href="http://demozoo.org/sceners/24278/">Maverick</a>.

dipswitch - 14:53 16 January 2014 #

Triton: what kind of prod is this supposed to be? http://demozoo.org/productions/98341/

Shinobi - 22:08 18 January 2014 #

@ dipswitch:

yeah, I noticed only after adding that there are various categories on top.
Would be nice if someone could change the category to "music", I don't
seem to be able to do it myself as normal user.

It's an entry from TV Themes @ scenecompos.net, btw.

Saga_Musix - 11:00 20 January 2014 #

Shinobi: Fixed.

menace - 07:27 22 January 2014 #

Ipggi: We are certainly not against an exchange of data - quite the contrary, we are always looking for partners who are interested in such exchanges. What we have opposed as an idea in the past is blindly importing data from other sources without permission or oversight. The import of data from csdb to pouet in the past is a good example of how that didn't go as planned.

Your site is a particular case even, since it deals with a niche part of the scene - and one that I am very interested in. I am quite sure we would be interested in this. I have alerted our main dev to this thread, and I'm sure he'll chime in once he is online.

To clarify for anyone else: We are more than open to partnerships and data exchange. Talk to us. :)

dipswitch - 13:46 22 January 2014 #

Ipggi, I can only agree to what Menace said! Looking forward to having that data over here!

dipswitch - 23:25 29 January 2014 #

by the way, ipggi, i just found an interview with you from 1996 here! http://demozoo.org/productions/98997/


dipswitch - 13:08 1 February 2014 #

Ipggi, if you could provide more demozoo-compatible info on the people behind Affinity, such as countries and group affils, I'd be very thankful. Also, I have added quite some more ms-dos pirate mags from the mid-90s during the past weeks, just browse the "productions" -> "diskmagazine" + "ms-dos" category...

dipswitch - 13:09 1 February 2014 #

For example it would be helpful to know whether Mr. Mister is really the same guy as the American C64 scener from RAD: http://demozoo.org/sceners/1683/

Shinobi - 17:46 3 February 2014 #

Saga_Musix: Thanks :)

Ah, please could someone do the same with http://demozoo.org/productions/37516/ ?
(change category from production to music)

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